TSR The Full & Glorious History of NuTSR

Guest 7042500 · Oct 18, 2023

humble minion said:
And, frankly, it strikes me as a bit in bad taste to be using Ernie's very serious illness as a stick to beat Lanasa. I know there's people on here who've known Ernie for many years, and this can't be an easy time for them, or for Ernie's family. Might be an idea to just leave that stuff out of this thread for the moment. (Of course I'm not a mod, and this is just a suggestion based on personal preference...)

That's just crazy talk!

(I've known Ernie since 1971)

Wincenworks · Oct 18, 2023

Umbran said:
I think, "You haven't donated publicly, so we are going to shame you" is a pretty bad look, and creates a very negative relationship between people and charity.

Generally speaking yes, and there were other people I noted haven't donated - I left them out for those reasons. I also pointed out they could be doing things behind the scenes etc.

However a lot of this conversation misses a couple of simple points:

1. GoFundMe's and other drives tend to run on momentum - when people see others donating they tend to feel more inclined to donate themselves - particularly people who might only be able to make a small donation because they feel that it is going to be one of the many small pieces of money that makes the difference, rather than just disappear into the void. So, if you're wanting to help someone with a GoFundMe, a token contribution can yield several fold in help even if you do the majority of donating outside the system. And of course, you can always tell people "or give directly to them like I have."

2. All these people have used Ernie to further their business interests. They piggy-backed on his name to promote their products, help build up their platforms etc. Frequently by bragging what a good friend of his they are, how badly he's been treated by corporations, etc. They all also basically consider themselves influencers, taste makers, etc who are capable of directing people's attention. They have opted not to.

This isn't about being charitable to a stranger linked to a cause, or about how close/far/relatable someone needs to be to qualify for charity for them - it's the general perception that they claim when they feel Ernie is useful to them vs how they act when Ernie needs a hand.

Umbran · Oct 18, 2023

Wincenworks said:
This isn't about being charitable to a stranger linked to a cause, or about how close/far/relatable someone needs to be to qualify for charity for them - it's the general perception that they claim when they feel Ernie is useful to them vs how they act when Ernie needs a hand.

With respect, it is still making charity a matter of performing to the public audience. The relationship between the donor and recipient does not change that.

You are still turning the story of Ernie's life-threatening condition into a way to talk about LaNasa and related people.

Ernie's declining condition should be about Ernie, not about them. It should be about Ernie, not about satisfying our desire for negative news about those chuckleheads.

Sacrosanct · Oct 18, 2023

Wincenworks said:
Generally speaking yes, and there were other people I noted haven't donated - I left them out for those reasons. I also pointed out they could be doing things behind the scenes etc.

However a lot of this conversation misses a couple of simple points:

1. GoFundMe's and other drives tend to run on momentum - when people see others donating they tend to feel more inclined to donate themselves - particularly people who might only be able to make a small donation because they feel that it is going to be one of the many small pieces of money that makes the difference, rather than just disappear into the void. So, if you're wanting to help someone with a GoFundMe, a token contribution can yield several fold in help even if you do the majority of donating outside the system. And of course, you can always tell people "or give directly to them like I have."

2. All these people have used Ernie to further their business interests. They piggy-backed on his name to promote their products, help build up their platforms etc. Frequently by bragging what a good friend of his they are, how badly he's been treated by corporations, etc. They all also basically consider themselves influencers, taste makers, etc who are capable of directing people's attention. They have opted not to.

This isn't about being charitable to a stranger linked to a cause, or about how close/far/relatable someone needs to be to qualify for charity for them - it's the general perception that they claim when they feel Ernie is useful to them vs how they act when Ernie needs a hand.

And you're missing the biggest point: You (nor I or anyone) knows if they gave support outside of Gofundme. You're making a huge assumption about what they are or aren't doing. Maybe they aren't doing anything. Wouldn't be surprised based on their character. But we don't know. And after you've already had several people point out it's more likely to give directly to someone you know personally and are in close proximity to rather than go through Gofundme and their fees, you seem to be doubling down on the assumption that they are perceived as not helping at all because they didn't show up on gofundme.

If your perception is that they aren't helping at all because they don't show up on gofundme, that's frankly a problem with you, not them. It's your assumption. Maybe you shouldn't worry about what others are doing and don't use Ernie's end of life period be used as a gotcha moment.

Deset Gled · Oct 18, 2023

Umbran said:
Ernie's declining condition should be about Ernie, not about them. It should be about Ernie, not about satisfying our desire for negative news about those chuckleheads.

With respect, this isn't a thread about Ernie, it's a thread about NuTSR.

The unfortunate fact is that this is the reality Ernie built for himself over the last few years. Ernie is a public figure by his own design, and he chose NuTSR as a way to help achieve that. And it’s undeniable that he’s still in the NuTSR mess. His name is on the copies of Dungeon Crawl and Those Pesky Goblins that are still being sold. His book is still being sold at the DHSM and its website. And his name is deeply involved in the lawsuits, including his dedication at the beginning of the extremely racist Star Frontiers New Genesis.

As someone who has been updating this thread for much longer than I ever expected to, I can tell you that there’s a lot of gray areas of news to update, and many of them leave a bad taste in my mouth. It’s a fact that Justin Lanasa has spent years bragging about his wealth and spending money on trivial things. We have reported in this thread when he goes out of his way to show off anything from his cars to his guns to his badly cooked expensive steaks. The general theory is that it’s newsworthy to show his bad actions, bad decisions, narcissism, hypocrisy, and potentially illegal actions. And sometimes, it’s just as newsworthy to report on no action as it is bad actions. In this case, Lanasa taking no action to help Ernie is another one of the ways that he’s been exploited. It’s not news that makes anyone happy. But in my (our?) goal to capture the Full and Glorious History of NuTSR, it’s still noteworthy. I consider the followups about NuTSR’s actions regarding the gofundme to be an unfortunate but accurate update, and part of the complete history.

A lot of people (me included) desperately want Ernie to come out of this saga with some sort of a redemption arc. I certainly hope for the day I can report on good news about Ernie (or Jeff Leason, or Vince Florio, or many others). Until then, I do my best to stay up to date on what’s happening, even it if doesn’t always bring me joy to learn it.

If anyone wants to have a thread about Ernie that's just about Ernie (not about NuTSR, etc), I would humbly suggest making a + thread dedicated to him. But it's not realistic to think that this thread can be that thread.

Edit: Actually, I think I'll take my own advice on this and make the + thread. Here it is: https://www.enworld.org/threads/ernie-gygax-gofundme.700498/

Wincenworks · Oct 18, 2023

I would personally love it if charity and the private lives of public figures were these sacrosanct things which existed in a sterilized bubble, immune to criticism and implications upon other actions. But that's not the case, never has been, and is increasingly a bigger issue as the factor which decides who lives and who dies, is the clout and the support they get for GoFundMe's to cover expenses for things like insulin, moving to a place where their identity is not criminalized, etc.

Particularly in the USA, who helps you and who encourages to help you, matters.

Sacrosanct said:
You (nor I or anyone) knows if they gave support outside of Gofundme. You're making a huge assumption about what they are or aren't doing.

Sure would be awkward if I admitted to that assumption in my original post, and then clarified that I am aware that one of them doesn't have money - in fact let me further clarify even though it's not really really relevant: I am fully aware that all of them may have reached out behind the scenes, and that none of them (as much as LaNasa brags about his wealth) are guaranteed to be a position to be able to substantially help Ernie. There is no expectation of them saving Ernie.

None of us will ever know the deep truths within their hearts, the details of the tragic backstories or the inflection points where their opted to become a certain type of person or why. Part of the reason I've discouraged people from going after Duck is that he has not volunteered himself as a public figure, and his situation is complicated.

I have also always been a fan of the Harry Houdini quote, "When you do a good deed, you don't bring a brass band."

What we can observe, and what they essentially invite us to judge them on - is what they do in public. Publicly they have proclaimed they care for Ernie, that he is their dearest friend, that all criticism of him is unfair attacks on his character, and that he deserves better.

They now have the opportunity to use their platforms to help him - to facilitate him having some improvement in his situation. They are actively opting not to try to do that.

And it is also a simple reality that funding campaigns like these essentially succeed or fail based on people's willingness to be seen to be publicly engaged, personally support it etc. You don't have to bring a brass band, you don't have to make it about yourself, but the more you make it personal and the more you show there's a lot of support for it - the more hopeful people will be their dollars will make a difference.

Umbran said:
With respect, it is still making charity a matter of performing to the public audience.

Because that is what they have been doing since the inception of the nuTSR project.

Justin LaNasa has an entire web site dedicated to his public performance as the leader that people need, a free thinker of the highest moral calibre. The official TSR Twitter (presumably operated by Dinehart at the time) tried to shame people for criticizing Ernie with bizarre claims that WotC stole his inheritance, and other stuff that was none of anyone's business. More recently Wonderfilled was making claims about him being defamed, and used his misfortune to try to move more product - they are also always shouting out things that Dinehart enjoys, find interesting, wants supported, etc.

Character is who you are when you have the choice - nobody telling you what you have to do, or why. Their public displays of their character are very not flattering.

Gradine · Oct 18, 2023

I am very definitely not going to be supporting this GoFundMe. What do you think that says about me?

Sacrosanct · Oct 18, 2023

Wincenworks said:
Sure would be awkward if I admitted to that assumption in my original post, and then clarified that I am aware that one of them doesn't have money - in fact let me further clarify even though it's not really really relevant: I am fully aware that all of them may have reached out behind the scenes, and that none of them (as much as LaNasa brags about his wealth) are guaranteed to be a position to be able to substantially help Ernie. There is no expectation of them saving Ernie.

FYI, it's not a better look to say "I did acknowledge it, I'm just ignoring to it to double down on my assumption that they are being perceived as doing nothing and that the important part."

Again, that's your perception, and one based on a bad assumption. Certainly not one you can take any higher moral ground on, for reasons already given.

Sacrosanct · Oct 18, 2023

Gradine said:
I am very definitely not going to be supporting this GoFundMe. What do you think that says about me?

That you've got a good reason not to.

Snarf Zagyg · Oct 18, 2023

Gradine said:
I am very definitely not going to be supporting this GoFundMe. What do you think that says about me?

That you prefer to spend money on worthwhile causes.

TSR The Full & Glorious History of NuTSR

Guest 7042500

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Wincenworks

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Sacrosanct

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Deset Gled

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Wincenworks

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Snarf Zagyg

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