D&D (2024) The Lackluster Ranger

[Minigiant]

The designers wrote the description...

So again, you're putting the cart directly in front of the horse and saying "My horse won't pull this cart because he thinks he knows better!".

I'm saying that they wrote the description but stopped 85% of the way when they designed it because they cared more about full casters.

If I'm correct, Ranger was the only casting class that didn't get a new spell in 2024.

 

[Horwath]

I wonder now, has Wizards actually said what THEY think the Ranger should be? It does feel like there is a disconnect.

wizards "said" that the Ranger is: "Hunter's mark, The Class."

 

[CreamCloud0]

This is probably one reason why I would prefer to play a non-magical Ranger over a spellcasting Ranger. A Ranger ought to be relying on their skills and their training when out in the open. There was this one session where my group was in a race with a cultist and his henchmen in order to find the location of a wizard's tomb, and the cultist had something of a head start. I had decided to have my Bugbear Ranger/Rogue (Urban Bounty Hunter background) scout ahead and track him down. So, I was making a lot of skill checks in Insight, Investigation, Perception, Nature and Survival to do just that. Eventually we tracked the cultist to the wizard's tomb and are now trying to find him after he had been captured and taken by some Yuan-Ti. Anyhow, it felt more rewarding (to me) to rely on skill than magic as a Ranger.

i do agree ranger should primarily be a skill-based class though i don't think their design should eschew magic entirely, for an archetype that focuses so much on survival and adaptability magic is such a versatile and useful tool that i feel any ranger worth their salt would end up learning some token amount for sheer practicality, but any magic a ranger learns shouldn't be in the class to replace actually having ranger skills, a ranger knows produce flame because fire is a valuable tool, they shouldn't know HM because HM is designed to do a thing a ranger is meant to be good at(tracking).

 

[Minigiant]

i do agree ranger should primarily be a skill-based class though i don't think their design should eschew magic entirely, for an archetype that focuses so much on survival and adaptability magic is such a versatile and useful tool that i feel any ranger worth their salt would end up learning some token amount for sheer practicality, but any magic a ranger learns shouldn't be in the class to replace actually having ranger skills, a ranger knows produce flame because fire is a valuable tool, they shouldn't know HM because HM is designed to do a thing a ranger is meant to be good at(tracking).

Leaning water breathing over learning to holding ones breath for any extra 2 minutes just makes sense.

A ranger should know Hunter's Mark because it helps in Wisdom (Perception or Survival) when the trail is hard. . Using it for attacking is a bonus on offense is a bonus

This is why I keep saying Rangers should have more Mark spells. I keep shifting on how I'd see them.

Beastmaster's Mark
Wisdom (Animal Handling) and Intelligence (Nature) to calm and identify animals
Deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you or any beast within 10 feet hit it with a non-weapon attack.

Stalker's Mark
Advantage on Strength (Athletics) and Dexterity (Stealth) checks to avoid the target
Deal an extra 3d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll while Invisible to it

Watcher's Mark
Advantage on Wisdom (Insight) or Intelligence (Investigation) to notice aspects about the marked target
Deal an extra 2d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll at a distance of 10 feat or more.

Hunter's Mark
Advantage on Wisdom (Perception Survival) checks you make to find marked target
Deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll.


I see rangers fading into the background like Predator or turning completely inky black as a shadow or having their eyes glow and pupils turn cat-like.

 

[Horwath]

Leaning water breathing over learning to holding ones breath for any extra 2 minutes just makes sense.

A ranger should know Hunter's Mark because it helps in Wisdom (Perception or Survival) when the trail is hard. . Using it for attacking is a bonus on offense is a bonus

This is why I keep saying Rangers should have more Mark spells. I keep shifting on how I'd see them.

Beastmaster's Mark
Wisdom (Animal Handling) and Intelligence (Nature) to calm and identify animals
Deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you or any beast within 10 feet hit it with a non-weapon attack.

Stalker's Mark
Advantage on Strength (Athletics) and Dexterity (Stealth) checks to avoid the target
Deal an extra 3d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll while Invisible to it

Watcher's Mark
Advantage on Wisdom (Insight) or Intelligence (Investigation) to notice aspects about the marked target
Deal an extra 2d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll at a distance of 10 feat or more.

Hunter's Mark
Advantage on Wisdom (Perception Survival) checks you make to find marked target
Deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll.


I see rangers fading into the background like Predator or turning completely inky black as a shadow or having their eyes glow and pupils turn cat-like.

I agree with all these spells, these are great, as long as they are not mandatory pick and sucking up class resource pool.

What I would do instead of mandatory HM is:

Ranger's focus.
Once on your turn as a Bonus action or when you hit with an attack you can focus on a single target.

You have advantage on Perception, Insight and Survival checks vs target.
in addition, once on your turn you can deal extra 1d4 damage to the target. Same damage type as the attack.

Focus lasts until you finish your next Long rest.

at level 5; damage is d6
at level 9: damage is d8
at level 13: damage is d10
at level 17: damage is d12

and we need a good capstone instead of what we have now.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Leaning water breathing over learning to holding ones breath for any extra 2 minutes just makes sense.

A ranger should know Hunter's Mark because it helps in Wisdom (Perception or Survival) when the trail is hard. . Using it for attacking is a bonus on offense is a bonus

This is why I keep saying Rangers should have more Mark spells. I keep shifting on how I'd see them.

Beastmaster's Mark
Wisdom (Animal Handling) and Intelligence (Nature) to calm and identify animals
Deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you or any beast within 10 feet hit it with a non-weapon attack.

Stalker's Mark
Advantage on Strength (Athletics) and Dexterity (Stealth) checks to avoid the target
Deal an extra 3d6 necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll while Invisible to it

Watcher's Mark
Advantage on Wisdom (Insight) or Intelligence (Investigation) to notice aspects about the marked target
Deal an extra 2d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll at a distance of 10 feat or more.

Hunter's Mark
Advantage on Wisdom (Perception Survival) checks you make to find marked target
Deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll.


I see rangers fading into the background like Predator or turning completely inky black as a shadow or having their eyes glow and pupils turn cat-like.

personally i quite hate mark-based design for rangers, it just rubs me the wrong way though i can't really say why, but yes, like water breathing, that's a very useful ability for a ranger to have that vastly outstrips what they'd ever be able to achieve training their ability to hold their breath.

(although i could totally see that as an 'eldritchprimal invocation' where they gain the ability to hold their breath for 10 minutes)

 

[ECMO3]

You seem to favour heavy optimisation in your character builds. Stands to reason the other players you come across have the same viewpoint? Multiclassing Rangers, especially for that reason, seems more like an optimiser thing rather than a choice someone playing for the flavour of the class, which is the point of the post you're responding to.

I play with a lot of players, some are optimizers, some are not.

Optimizers tend to work with what is at hand towards getting mechanics to meet their thematic goal. An optimizer is not typically going to say "I want Rangers to do x y z" An optimizer is going to generally reverse that: "I want my character to do x y z, now what class, race and feat combinations can I use to do that."

In that respect, those that care most about what a "Ranger" is tend to not be optimizers.

 

[ECMO3]

Cause feat as a lvl 1 spell?

Cause Fear .... assuming your table allows spells from Xanathar's.

If your table does not allow spells from Xanathars, I would still get Magic Initiate for Friends, but I would change the spell to Shield.

 

[Ashrym]

The only ones who have a point are people who want a beastmaster or trapper class.

A person doesn't need a trapper class the way trap design works in the DMG.

Falling Net​

Nuisance Trap (Levels 1–4)

Trigger: A creature crosses a trip wire
Duration: Instantaneous
A falling net trap uses a trip wire to release a weighted, 10-foot-square Net suspended from the ceiling. The trip wire is 3 inches off the ground and stretches between two columns or trees.

The first creature that crosses the trip wire causes the Net to fall on it. The target must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or have the Restrained condition until it escapes. The target succeeds automatically if it’s Huge or larger. A creature can take an action to make a DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check, freeing itself or another creature within its reach from the Net on a successful check.

Detect and Disarm. As a Search action, a creature can examine the trapped area and make a DC 11 Wisdom (Perception) check, detecting the trip wire and the suspended Net on a successful check. Once detected, the trip wire can be easily cut or avoided (no ability check required).

Destroy the Net. Reducing the Net to 0 Hit Points frees any creature trapped in it (see the Player’s Handbook for the Net’s statistics).

Set the Trap. A creature that has Thieves’ Tools and all the trap’s components (including a Net) can try to set a falling net trap, doing so with a successful DC 13 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check. Each attempt to set this trap takes 10 minutes.

At Higher Levels. You can scale the trap for higher levels by increasing the weight of the Net, which increases the save DC and the DC of the Strength (Athletics) check as follows: DC 12 at levels 5–10, DC 14 at levels 11–16, or DC 16 at levels 17–20.

The DMG lists sample traps and guidelines on how to design them. That example includes how a PC can set up the trap. Using this guideline I would say traps fall under skill actions where the player can describe a trap and how they set it, the DM calls for any rolls that might be required and how long it takes and damage or effects etc, and they move forward from there.

There doesn't seem to be a need for a trapper class when thieves' tools, some equipment, and a skill check can build and set a trap.

In the ranger's case, what would it take to trigger an avalanche or rockslide in equipment and skills for setting a trap as another example? Imagine using the survival skill to not only avoid natural hazards but also leave a trail luring pursuers into those hazards.

There's no need for a class feature when we can already call out an activity under those rules and then let the DM adjudicate it.

I think a trapper class restricts being imaginative. All a person needs right now is tools, materials, and time. But if a person were to lean into it then look at the trap design rules and build around that.

 

[Minigiant]

Ranger's focus.
a stuff

Nice but kinda boring

The real "problem" is that Ranger isn't unique because WOTC wasn't focused on being creative when designing it, are stuck with that backward compatibility, and the community is fixated on these uncreative aspects.

1. Hunter's Mark is just a damage bonus buff
2. Hail of Thorns altough better is just a Smite
3. It's skill bonus is just Expertise and Advantage like everyone else
4. Most of its spells are just Druid and Wizard spells.

I mean if you look at the warrior classes just on Offense

• Barbarian is the Passive Damage Buff and Passive Accuracy Buff Warrior class
• Fighter is the Additional Attacks Warrior Class
• Monk is the Unarmed Strike Warrior Class
• Paladin is the Active Damage Buff Warrior Class
• Rogue is the Passive Spike Damage Buff Warrior Class.

What is left for Ranger?
Accuracy Buff Warrior? Available but dangerously boring and OP

And Interest Option is the Replacement Warrior Class. Ranger has a few spells that Replace their stats or rolls.

• Barkskin replaces your AC with 17
• Conjure Barrage replaces your attack with a "arrowcone"
• Conjure Volley Replaces your attack with a "arrowball"
• Lightning Arrow replaces your damage roll
• Swift Quiver replaces your bonus action attack with 2 attacks
• Steel Wind Strike Replaces your attack with a 5 hit AOE

What if Ranger's gimmick is its spells could just replace stuff with other stuff.

Low level stuff could be switching their own resistances or damage rolls (a weapon become a wild blade for 3d4 damage) or skin color for a stealth bonus.

Mid level is them replacing their breathing (I breathe water now), limbs (wings, claws, tenacles), damage rolls, or actions (spend a slot to attack 4 times)

High level stuff could poison foes to alter their resistances or changing their attack roll.