"Sudden" metamagic feats...am I missing something?

[Gnome]

I was taking a look at the "sudden" metamagic feats in Complete Arcane, and they seemed kind of overpowered, unless I'm missing a restriction (other than only once/day). For example, sudden maximize only requires one other metamagic feat as a prereq, so a 3th-level wizard could presumably maximize a scorching ray with this feat, whereas a wizard would normally have to be 9th-level to prepare an empowered scorching ray.

Further, can these stack? E.g. could a 3rd-level human wizard with a metamagic feat, sudden empower and sudden maximize let loose a scorching ray for 36 points of fire damage?

 

[Tinker Gnome]

A Gnome Cleric IMC has Sudden Maximize and it has not seemed too overpowered. He mostly uses it for either Cure spells or Inflict Spells.

 

[Goolpsy]

Isn't maximize applied first? and then empower... ei. 4d6 -> 24 + empower -> 24 + 2d6 ?

anyway.. I always found Sudden Metamagic very very Weak.. Sure enought you can use it "Sudden" without increasing spell level, but it is only once a day

If you do that.. you use 2 feats to blast... 1 monster per day ... worth it?

 

[Garnfellow]

I have a power gamer player whose invoker has taken all of the Sudden feats, and I don't think they are broken.

These feats do not stack, because applying them is a swift action, and only one swift action can be taken each round.

 

[Nifft]

These feats do not stack, because applying them is a swift action, and only one swift action can be taken each round.

I'm not seeing that restriction in the feat descriptions. Is it somewhere else in the book?

Thanks, -- N

 

[Garnfellow]

I'm not seeing that restriction in the feat descriptions. Is it somewhere else in the book?

I only know the versions from the Miniatures Handbook, but I think you might be right -- I can't find anything that says applying a Sudden metamagic is a swift, or for that matter, any action. Are there Sudden feats in the PHBII? Maybe I am crazy.

 

[Uulbaan]

«Isn't maximize applied first? and then empower... ei. 4d6 -> 24 + empower -> 24 + 2d6 ?»

- Yes, that is the correct formula to apply Maximize + Empower.


- It is not a swift action. However, it is still a metamagic, so it takes a Full action rather than a Standard action.

 

[FEADIN]

I think they are "free action", only the Sudden Quicken seems limited, like the "standard" Quicken Spell, only one quickened spell per round (swift action).

 

[Quartz]

It seems a little strange to me that you can take the Sudden X feat without taking the X feat first.

 

[UltimaGabe]

It is not a swift action. However, it is still a metamagic, so it takes a Full action rather than a Standard action.

No, they specifically don't increase the casting time or spell level.

Anyway, Sudden Metamagic feats are NOT overpowered. In fact, in my opinion, they're UNDER powered. True, you can use an empowered/maximized/whatever at an earlier level than you normally could, but it's ONCE per day, for an entire FEAT.