D&D 5E The Scout Rogue - how did it work out?

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Obviously that is your prerogative as a DM, but IME much of those things would require a perception check. The idea is two people listening at a door, one with perception and one without, the PC with perception is more likely to pick up more of the conversation, etc.

I discovered while playing 3.5 that perception (spot/listen/search) checks make the game less fun. More information, results in more player agency. Since then, I have all characters automatically succeed. I've always been happy with the results.

I can understand that. I agree I think it would be fine if the feature granted proficiency, and IF you are already proficient, you would get expertise. But, as rarely as we use Nature (hardly ever) and Survival (often, but Perception is used more in general), granting expertise isn't a huge deal.

Really? I use Survival to check if the gets lost in the wilderness (checked once when exiting each hex). Getting lost makes finding food and water an imperative. In my game short rest = 8 hour, long rest = 5 days. So magicking up food and water isn't always possible.

The good news about getting lost, is that the players discover things they otherwise wouldn't. Nature is good skill to have when encountering unknown wilderness.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Still jumping non-proficient to expert is strange.

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The thing about synonyms is they have similar meanings, not identical meanings - otherwise there would be no point in having different words. Inexperienced is very different to inept.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

The thing about synonyms is they have similar meanings, not identical meanings - otherwise there would be no point in having different words. Inexperienced is very different to inept.

Agreed. Nevertheless, one does not suddenly become an expert in something. In D&D, we have three levels of training, non-proficient, proficient, and expert. How would one go from being a non-proficient computer programmer to an expert programmer without first becoming a proficient one?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

In D&D, we have three levels of training, non-proficient, proficient, and expert.

Actually, we don't.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Really? I use Survival to check if the gets lost in the wilderness (checked once when exiting each hex). Getting lost makes finding food and water an imperative. In my game short rest = 8 hour, long rest = 5 days. So magicking up food and water isn't always possible.

The good news about getting lost, is that the players discover things they otherwise wouldn't. Nature is good skill to have when encountering unknown wilderness.

Well, with longer rest times that would impact things some.

The funny thing about the wilderness is either you are looking (rather randomly) for someplace you don't know where it is or traveling to a place you know and more often than not following a road or trail (thus not likely to get lost).

But experiences differ. If perception has so little value in your game, does adding it to Survivalist really have that much impact? Seems like a just some icing on the cake, a cake that is already pretty tasty IMO.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Actually, we don't.

No? What is your alternative interpretation?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Well, with longer rest times that would impact things some.

The funny thing about the wilderness is either you are looking (rather randomly) for someplace you don't know where it is or traveling to a place you know and more often than not following a road or trail (thus not likely to get lost).

But experiences differ. If perception has so little value in your game, does adding it to Survivalist really have that much impact? Seems like a just some icing on the cake, a cake that is already pretty tasty IMO.

The roads in my world usually lead to boring places. The interesting places require off-road travel.

Perhaps, I'll have to wait and see if/when someone chooses that subclass, then adjust accordingly.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No? What is your alternative interpretation?

Proficient is the only official term used in game.

But characters suddenly become proficient in all sorts of things they couldn't do before as they level up, many much more impressive than knowing the difference between the tracks of a bear and a wolf. Look, I can suddenly build a robot dog/blow things up with my mind/move twice as fast. Why is becoming good in a skill so different? The assumption with all class abilities is it is something characters have been working on as they go along. In 1st edition the process of levelling up took weeks of gametime. That it happens apparently instantly in 5e is a continent fiction we buy into to make the game flow faster.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Perhaps, I'll have to wait and see if/when someone chooses that subclass, then adjust accordingly.

Always a good strategy. We've had lots of house-rules that seemed to help or made sense but ultimately we dropped because they just weren't necessary to the game or really added to the fun.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Proficient is the only official term used in game.

But characters suddenly become proficient in all sorts of things they couldn't do before as they level up, many much more impressive than knowing the difference between the tracks of a bear and a wolf. Look, I can suddenly build a robot dog/blow things up with my mind/move twice as fast. Why is becoming good in a skill so different? The assumption with all class abilities is it is something characters have been working on as they go along. In 1st edition the process of levelling up took weeks of gametime. That it happens apparently instantly in 5e is a continent fiction we buy into to make the game flow faster.

To me, that explains the steps between non-proficient to proficient and proficient to expertise, but not the jump from non-proficient to expertise.