Why hate 3eR before it comes out?

[Ranger REG]

This is what I hate about it... rather than print a single 30 dollar book with the errata and changes in it... which I'd likely purchase without batting an eye... they have chosen to make me repurchase ALL the core books again, including what they haven't changed at all.

An errata book is not worth purchasing. Nor it is profitable. Besides, new customers not going to be attracted by the appeal of separate core rulebooks and errata books.

If you don't want to buy new books, you cheap SOB (just like me), then pick up the revised System Reference Document ... just like me.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Still its money that WotC is forcing me to spend... tonar cartridges, or Kinkos its an expense I shouldn't have to spend.

I resent being ripped off... I resent WotC.

You know the SRD is available in downloadable RTF format, right?

And that the cost to print out the relevent portions of the SRD--that is, the parts you actually need to have at the gaming table--should run you, at most, a few bucks.

Games get revised, and books get published. That's what companies like this do. To accuse WotC of being "evil" because of it is not only rude, it's blatantly untrue. Just from reading this board, one can see that a lot of folks are just planning to download the SRD--and many of them might have bought the books of the SRD wasn't available. Yet WotC makes it available--for free--anyway.

More to the point, if WotC doesn't sell books, they go out of business. Core books sell better than anything else. Do the math. You don't like it, don't buy it, but can the crap about "WotC is evil and trying to ream us over!" It's getting old.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Let me clarify some points here.

WotC is the only major RPG company to make the entirety of its major game rules available for free.

WotC is the only major RPG company to make its most popular game available for use by other companies. Yes, this may draw attention and sales back to them, but it was also a major risk. Nobody knew if this was going to work or not. They took a gamble on it.

WotC is the reason we have so many products to choose from. WotC is the reason D&D has gotten as popular as it has, thus ensuring the continuation of the game we all love (or else why are we here?). They have gone out of their way to make sure that D20 publishers are able to keep up, making advance info available to them. They have made every effort to listen to their customers, making enormous errata and clarification files available for free, something that's a massive undertaking for a company this size.

And after that, people are screaming at WotC for trying to actually make a profit. As though they were--gasp!--a business.

Buy the new edition, or not, as you choose. That's absolutely your right. But those of you screaming about how evil WotC is should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Kai Lord]

Because it is nothing more than a ploy to get your money. If you don't like some of the current rules. Change em.

As opposed to the initial incarnation of 3E, which was specifically released to get homeless people off the streets and increase awareness of the Special Olympics. Now with their little 3.5 stunt that's all tainted.

 

[Agamon]

As opposed to the initial incarnation of 3E, which was specifically released to get homeless people off the streets and increase awareness of the Special Olympics. Now with their little 3.5 stunt that's all tainted.

Heh.

Hey, I don't resent WotC for wanting to make more money. They are a business, not a non-profit organization. And they are supplying us with something that's really been indirectly asked for over and over since 3E first came out.

People complain when rangers get the shaft and then they complain when WotC tries to officially fix them. Human nature, I guess.

 

[Neowolf]

This is what I hate about it... rather than print a single 30 dollar book with the errata and changes in it... which I'd likely purchase without batting an eye... they have chosen to make me repurchase ALL the core books again, including what they haven't changed at all.

I hate the lowlife marketing tactic being taken... I hate that since the gamerrs in my community will pick them up, if I'm going to play with them I'll have to pick up the books... I feel like I'm being railroaded into paying 100 dollars for 80% material I already have... this is why I hate 3.5e. I think WotC is being money grubbing jerks and it reeks of what made me quit playing MtG years ago... change for changes sake... change JUST to milk more money out of the customer.

And before anyone gives me that SRD b.s. you've got to be kidding... the SRD is of NO practical use now and I doubt it will get any better with the new revision. ONline RTF documentation is of NO use at the Gaming table unless you have DSL and a cmoputer in the gaming area... which costs even MORE money for their changes.

I dont hate 3.5e I hate WotC... if I knew enough gamers in my area who felt as I did I start up a new group... ignore 3.5 and WotC alltogether and give my money to another d20 company... one whos putting out useful, interesting new stuff and NOT trying to railroad me into repurchasing my shelf of gaming material again... do any of you really think that if it sells they wont do it again in another year or so? And if you don't think they will has anyone ever called you Polly-Anna?

Hmmm... with all due respect, 3.5E is NOT WotC jerking the rug out from under you. Your existing books won't fall apart at the seams the day that the new books come out. And while it's true that the SRD provides little/no flavor info, I think most groups could handle coming up with that on their own. Heck, some DMs may even prefer that, since it gives them more room to customize their worlds.

Cheesy marketing ploy? Maybe. WotC IS a business afterall, and D&D needs to make them money somehow, to impress the suits at Hasbro if for no other reason. As for the argument that you'll have to buy them just because others do, that's also a load of rubbish. Don't try to tell me that if you're sitting at the table with someone and come across an inconsistency, you can't say "hey, let me see that for a sec..." Mechanically, the two revisions seem like they'll be mostly compatible with each other, with class balances and such being the major changes. It's not like they're completely changing what all the ability scores do, changing the number of feats available, overhauling the combat system, or anything like that. It's just errata and some new material being made available.

Also, another angle to consider is that try as we might, we can't make books last forever. They're just not that durable. It's not because they're badly or cheaply made, it's because they're made of paper and we look at them ALL THE TIME. It's just a fact of life that every several years you may have to buy a new PHB, perhaps a new DMG or MM less frequently. I've heard many people on this board mention that their existing books are about to disintegrate, and lord knows mine have seen better days. Why not just retire your existing books if they're in bad condition and pick up the new ones at your own pace? No one's saying you have to buy them all at the same time either. If the cost is really that much of an issue (which I can understand, I'm a college student), just get the PHB at first, and then get the other ones when you can (if you even want them, I personally don't plan on picking up the new MM).

Please don't misunderstand this as a flame, I just get really tired of hearing people play the victim whenever stuff like this happens. Look at the books when they come out. Like them? Buy 'em at your own pace. Don't like them? Don't buy them, as simple as that. Either way, the game you like is still there and no one is taking that away from you, so don't pretend that WotC is unfairly victimizing you.

 

[Fenes 2]

Limper, I can't understand you. On the one hand, you say that you would have snatched up a book containing only the errata and revisions in a heartbeat, but on the other hand you say you don't want to pay the costs (a few dollars) for the printing of the SRD?

Me, I would rather pay 150 Dollar for 3 new core books with all the errata and revisions in it than a book of erratas - I would hate to check rules first in the original book and then check if it has been errated in another book.

(My first printing PHB/DMG/MM are still fine, even though my PHB gets carried around daily in my backpack.)

 

[Dark Jezter]

Let me clarify some points here.

WotC is the only major RPG company to make the entirety of its major game rules available for free.

WotC is the only major RPG company to make its most popular game available for use by other companies. Yes, this may draw attention and sales back to them, but it was also a major risk. Nobody knew if this was going to work or not. They took a gamble on it.

WotC is the reason we have so many products to choose from. WotC is the reason D&D has gotten as popular as it has, thus ensuring the continuation of the game we all love (or else why are we here?). They have gone out of their way to make sure that D20 publishers are able to keep up, making advance info available to them. They have made every effort to listen to their customers, making enormous errata and clarification files available for free, something that's a massive undertaking for a company this size.

And after that, people are screaming at WotC for trying to actually make a profit. As though they were--gasp!--a business.

Buy the new edition, or not, as you choose. That's absolutely your right. But those of you screaming about how evil WotC is should be ashamed of yourselves.

Amen, Mouseferatu! That is one of the most sensible posts I've seen on the subject. I just don't understand it why some gamers are acting like WotC is doing something horrible by trying to make a buck.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Rpg companies (those that continued their business) have been putting out seconds and thirds editions for last 15 or so years now. Usually each edition got 2 to 3 three years to "live" before that happens, and even less so for collectable card games.

When new books come out, I laught and cry, and I'm happy about some changes, pissed off about others, and don't give damn about some. Oh, and I flip through books to see if there is new art, and is that as plagued with skinny elves and buckle-fetish as last books were.

I don't really belive WotC chooses to change rules the way I prefer them.

Uh, I really hated Epic-handbooks (hey let's re-print everything with epic-name added, so we get more pages, and let's multiply every cost by 10 to make it epic). Uh hopefully Neverwinter Night makers choose to diss that whole book, when they offically make addition, that allows characters to go over 20.
That's for my pet-peeves.

Anyway, I'm not expecting new release is going to favor my game-style. Hehe, but luckily my dms' do.

 

[Vhane]

First what do you mean books don't last forever... let it be know I hold an original copy of the DMG in my hand right now. Its from 1979 and although a little scuffed it served me well and still would if I chose to use it. I use the hell out of my books and they still last forever. So I have to say you should treat your stuff better.

Personally I agree with Limper except for one thing... replace all instances of WotC with Hasboro. I played 1e and 2e going to the next book for rules clarification doesn't bother me in the slightest... the changes could all have been put in a new book and I'd have liked it better.


Neowolf: There is one problem to your example of using others books, what if you have to plan something, have you ever tried to plan without the manual?