D&D 5E Was the Rune Knight (in Tasha's) "over-nerfed"?

[Sacrosanct]

Someone liked my post, so I will necro this tread with an important comment:

I got this late spring to run a game with a level 6 rune knight in it. The player was only able to make 2 sessions, but those 2 sessions convinced me that the RK is really strong. I was thinking too much about the extra damage and the damage resistance rune being pushed to level 7, but it doesn't matter - the runes overall are so good that the nerf was definitely necessary.

So yeah, I was wrong. Playtesting is so important!

I'm playing a RK right now in RotFM, and yes, it is very good. Having lots of fun. Not so super powerful from damage, but some of the other abilities are really, really good, especially the ability to shift an attack to another target. Last Saturday I turned a critical hit from a big bad to instead hit one its allies. Much to the DM's chagrin

That is sweet.

Plus, I've been doing my Nordic accent the whole time, and the first time I used giant size, I described how the air got heavy with electricity, and started playing Immigrant Song for the rest of the players to listen to (I'm playing a goliath RK with a warhammer). It was an epic moment lol.

 

[ECMO3]

Hello

So it is quite common for Unearthed Arcana sub-classes to be a bit too good, and nerfed a bit when published in an "official" book. And the Rune Knight was too good - the combo of the hill giant rune giving your damage resistance, and the +1d6 dmg to all attacks was just... a little bit much. So a nerf was clearly necessary.

I did like the mechanics and the "flavor" of the subclass a lot. So I hoped it would be published officially. I wondered how it would be nerfed however. Would it be OP (probably not), just right or over-nerfed?

Now that I see the official version I'm a bit... torn. Level-gating the hill giant rune makes sense, but it's a long weight for that subclass feature to kick in. And limiting the extra damage of giant's might to 1d6 per turn, with a slow increase to 1d8 and then 1d10.... it's a bit harsh.

It's clearly still a playable subclass! But... did they go too far?

EDIT: After running a few sessions as a DM with a player who had a level 6 RK - no they did not go too far, the subclass is super good.

No. It is a powerful fighter subclass. It is especially powerful on a custom lineage combined with tavern brawler, unarmed fighting style and a 1-level Rogue dip for expertise in athletics. I am playing a character similar to this.

Grapple and shove against most foes is near-automatic success with a +8 athletics in tier 1, +11 in tier 2 and with advantage if you are using giant's might. The bonus action grapple from tavern brawler means at 6th-level you can strike them for damage, grapple them and knock them prone all in one turn without using AS. Once they are shoved prone and grappled they typically can't get out of it, and they can't stand up so they are stuck and you are getting advantage on all your attacks while they are getting disadvantage. Your Rogue dip get's you an extra 1d6 with sneak using a Rapier once a turn after he is prone like this. With giant's might you can even do this to huge enemies - throw the dragon to the ground and put him in a neck-hold.

Against the rare enemies that you can't grapple you pull out your maul and beat them to death like any other fighter.

That is before you even get into the runes which are really the heart of the class.

 

[ECMO3]

Like some other members.....

Good points.

I would put RK above Battlemaster, but I would not automatically say they are more powerful than either EK (Echo Knight or Eldritch Knight) as they too are powerful subclasses.

 

[Ancalagon]

No. It is a powerful fighter subclass. It is especially powerful on a custom lineage combined with tavern brawler, unarmed fighting style and a 1-level Rogue dip for expertise in athletics. I am playing a character similar to this.

Grapple and shove against most foes is near-automatic success with a +8 athletics in tier 1, +11 in tier 2 and with advantage if you are using giant's might. The bonus action grapple from tavern brawler means at 6th-level you can strike them for damage, grapple them and knock them prone all in one turn without using AS. Once they are shoved prone and grappled they typically can't get out of it, and they can't stand up so they are stuck and you are getting advantage on all your attacks while they are getting disadvantage. Your Rogue dip get's you an extra 1d6 with sneak using a Rapier once a turn after he is prone like this. With giant's might you can even do this to huge enemies - throw the dragon to the ground and put him in a neck-hold.

Against the rare enemies that you can't grapple you pull out your maul and beat them to death like any other fighter.

That is before you even get into the runes which are really the heart of the class.

you should have read the entire post

 

[NaturalZero]

The rune knight is the first subclass I've played more than once. The Cloud Rune is the most dramatic and fun feature in 5e.

 

[Horwath]

They're really scared of power creep.

Hahaha

twilight cleric

hahaha

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The rune knight is the first subclass I've played more than once. The Cloud Rune is the most dramatic and fun feature in 5e.

Without a save, that rune is very powerful.

 

[Ancalagon]

Hahaha

twilight cleric

hahaha

That same adventure I ran also had a twilight cleric PC. HOLY CRAP they are strong. The temp HP is just... too much.

I would not allow a twilight cleric in my game.

 

[Ancalagon]

Without a save, that rune is very powerful.

you could use it vs a monster that has a crazy high AC, is protected by spells etc, to "bounce" a very damaging attack from a PC to a minion to said monster. It's best to redirect the attack of foes, but redirecting attacks from allies could be useful in some cases...

 

[NaturalZero]

you could use it vs a monster that has a crazy high AC, is protected by spells etc, to "bounce" a very damaging attack from a PC to a minion to said monster. It's best to redirect the attack of foes, but redirecting attacks from allies could be useful in some cases...

In the first campaign that I ran a RK, there was a wizard holding people hostage. He had a a horrible scythe trap in the entrance of the room that worked off of an attack roll and had nearly killed someone. My turn came up and I told the DM that I laid in the trap and let it hit me directly. He pauses, like, "OK... I mean... it crits you."

"You mean it crits the evil wizard," I say, evoking gasps and cheers.

I also transferred a hard-hitting attack from a PC with low AC to a PC with high AC to make it miss and I've wanted to let the party paladin smite me as hard as he can to hit a flying creature.